Issue: Long posts, and the purpose of this forum

In what way should I interpret "promoting"?

1. a. To raise to a more important or responsible job or rank.
b. To advance (a student) to the next higher grade.
2. To contribute to the progress or growth of; further. See Synonyms at advance.
3. To urge the adoption of; advocate: promote a constitutional amendment.
4. To attempt to sell or popularize by advertising or publicity: commercials promoting a new product.
5. To help establish or organize (a new enterprise), as by securing financial backing: promote a Broadway show.

In my view: to promote something is to make it accessible to everyone. Right now I feel like it has been made very hard for me to access all topics with huge amounts of text. I feel discouraged to think critical in the topics. I feel more and more like I should be critical towards this forum itself. To me these huge amounts of text are "murky". I can't see through it. It doesn't feel like swimming, it feels like drowning.

Could anyone please explain me as clear as possible what is the purpose of this forum?

4 - Making critical thinking accessible (oh wait no, that's not an option)

I am sorry, I'd rather have a chopper view instead of diving deep into the words that can never be precise enough.

I have been thinking about the long posts. And it seems to me this forum needs to address long posts like writing short essays. With that I mean using structure.

Usually when you write big pieces of text, you are using techniques to make it easier for people to read. (Because you want many people to read it, right?) So the first step is to start the first paragraph with a small introduction into the topic you want to write about. Or when you are going to talk about more topics, then you explain why you do. Then the body of the text contains all the facts and evidence to support your theory. In different paragraphs you can address the different topics and ideas.

What I have seen so far is that a forum or any kind of internet related writing tends to be without any structure for proper reading. Usually people write short responds to topics. These small posts don't need any structure, because they are short enough to oversee what is said. But unfortunately the longer posts on forums have become a struggle to read, because they use the same lack of structure like short posts.

And then in the final paragraph you end with a summary of what you have been saying. This is to make a conclusive statement or observation where people can respond to. This way of writing makes it easier for "non-readers" to think about the essence by reading the introduction and summary. And the "real readers" can respond on the content and evidence. I think this would make long posts more readable and accessible.

I could not disagree more.

Ok let me elaborate what I disagree with, and why.

Pseudos said:


and he meant this is in contrast to his proposed structure of:
So let us look. I will start with the long op in the "Accountability" thread, since it is one he was unwilling to read. The first paragraph is a short introduction to what I wanted to write about. The body of the post makes the argument I am presenting: and the final paragraph reaches the conclusion that that argument leads to.

The truth is what pseudos said at the time as the reason he was unwilling to read it: that is
I have nothing against laziness: I do have something against pretending that your laziness is someone else's fault

One of the strengths of a forum such as this one, as Vninect stated, is that different people are good in different areas, and having them all combined allows us to get informed and form an opinion on issues outside our own field.

I feel the length of OPs limits the accessability of those topics outside one's field.


Let's take that accountability thread as an example.
I have never put much thought into it, so I don't have an opinion to agree or disagree with (parts of) the OP. Reading the OP is quite a task, since it's a lot of text, and I haven't yet decided if it interests me. While reading, since I have no opinion yet, and have no thoughts of myself yet, I can only accept what's written in the OP, unless I recognize it as total bullocks, which we can assume it usually is not.

So after reading, I have seen someone's elaborate opininion on a subject I know nothing of, argumented by things I know nothing of.


That's all fine, since it's better than knowing nothing. The trouble starts when I would like to add something to the topic. When I intuitively agree with the statement, there's no use for me posting, since I don't really have anything to add onto the OP. When I intuitively disagree, I could post that. However, it would be rather pointless without actually trying to counter OP's statement with arguments.
Here is where the length of the OP can be a problem. To get a good feeling for the OP, I would need to do some background research on every or at least most arguments. For such lengthy posts, that is a lot of work.
I could also focus on one or two arguments I may have some knowledge of or have found enough background info to feel I can start a discussion with, but then I would pull the discussion towards just a part of the issue, leaving the other arguments unaddressed. At that point, a discussion might start, without me actually making my statement and my own arguments.

The only proper way to do this would be to address every argument of the OP, plus my own arguments on top of that. The longer and more nuanced the OP, the longer and more nuanced my own reply needs to be. I would have to do quite some background research on OP's arguments, plus some on my own (since I started without much knowledge on the subject).


Putting work into such things isn't a bad thing at all, but when there's an entire forum full of topics, it's impossible to it for every topic. Therefore, I'd select topics on personal interest, ending up with issues that are within my own field, on which I probably already have a relatively strong opinion. Taking away the potential I mentioned at the start of this post.


I personally think it fits the dynamics of a forum to make shorter OPs, that may not have all the arguments or the depth of a longer piece of writing, but makes a statement with some core argument(s), that triggers others to think about it and agree or disagree. From there the discussion can expand and be deepened, but the first thing is to actually get people to be involved in it before trying to convince them of something.



To sum it up: I think the length of some OPs lays a very high treshold for (less informed) others to add to the discussion. A shorter OP is more likely to trigger reactions, after which the issue can be deepened when the discussion allows for it.





Edit: I would like to add that above may be more applicable to larger communities. However, I still think a series of posts replying to eachother is easier to follow than the same thing as a wall of text in one single post, and more accessible for new people to add to the discussion.

Edited by cellofaan - 20/7/2011, 11:09

I actually agree with a lot of what you say, Cellofaan: I have long recognised that I am not well suited for making OP's: I am far more comfortable responding to others than making initial statements: that is true in RL as well as on forums, and it is just the way my mind works. Every sentence I write seems to need qualification, and the upshot is long posts which are, as you say, not very conducive to discussion. Believe it or not I have been trying to improve in that area: but it does not come easy to me It is made worse by the fact that I tend to write about stuff that interests me: sometimes that means I have thought about it quite a lot. Stuff you have thought about tends not to resolve to anything very simple, sadly: I wish it did

I don't think it is necessary to respond to everything in a post, however. If one bit triggers some reaction in you I can't see anything wrong with just addressing that part. If that takes a discussion in an unexpected direction, all the better. There are bound to be aspects which are important and relevant but which are missed or not given enough importance in any OP, I think.