Europe's emergency aid to Greece, A dual disappointment

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FionaK
view post Posted on 16/3/2013, 11:35




QUOTE (FionaK @ 7/6/2012, 12:34) 
Not really about the money: but this clip of the fascist Golden Dawn spokesperson really has to be watched all the way through.

www.zerohedge.com/news/how-greek-ne...ntation-live-tv

You will remember this and you may have been wondering what happened next. Today I read that someone called Manolis Kefaloyiannis, who is a a New Democracy politician and party secretary, voted against lifting immunity from prosecution from Mr Kasadiaris so that he can face charges of assault. Apparently Mr Kefaloyiannis said that he believes that Mr Kasadiaris needs to be given the opportunity to apologise.

He committed the assault on live television more than 8 months ago. How much time does the man need? Is there any evidence that he is sorry, at all? And are we to assume that all crime is adequately dealt with if the rapist/burglar/ reckless driver apologises? It is radical, I will give it that. Too radical, apparently, because despite this person's vote his colleagues did not agree with him and the immunity was lifted by a huge majority. I suppose that everyone has blind spots and I am informed that Mr Kefaloyiannis is one of those who dealt with the Lagarde list. It is alleged that members of his family are on that list but I am sure that his committment to immunity from prosecution for politicians is entirely unrelated
 
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FionaK
view post Posted on 10/4/2013, 19:43




http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/vi...ign-press-video

Meantime Mr Vaxevanis faces fresh trial and in this video contends that the press in Greece are not doing their job: he appears to think that the press elsewhere are doing their job. Maybe all of us need to read the foreign press rather than out own to find out what is happening? Sadly almost everyone in the UK is monoglot so it rather reduces our access
 
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FionaK
view post Posted on 16/4/2013, 15:20




This is a really sad anecdote and I just thought I should share it. It is a blog written by a Greek woman,

http://marinacranioblog.wordpress.com/2013...-greeks-travel/

and she tells a story. She was travelling in Mexico with her sister and a Swiss couple asked where they were from. On being told they were Greek the Swiss couple apparently said

QUOTE
“Why are you travelling? You should be in Greece working to pay us back!”

I hope this anecdote is a lie. Or made up to illustrate a feeling rather than an accurate account of an attitude. But I cannot see why the writer would invent it, really...... Maybe there are only two completely stupid and nasty people in the world and they happen to be Swiss. Probably not, though
 
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FionaK
view post Posted on 19/4/2013, 10:46




http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2013/04/19/greek...e-greek-polity/

I am linking this because I think that the information it contains should be widely known. I cannot comment because I have no knowledge of the background situation in Greece: perhaps Mr Vaxevanis is unstable or is intent on bringing down a perfectly respectable government and financial sector. But remember that when the elite is attacked this is one famliar tactic they adopt - sometimes there really are conspiracies
 
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view post Posted on 12/6/2013, 01:27
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The national broadcasting agency ERT of Greece has been temporarily closed by the government. A government spokesman called the Hellenistic Broadcasting Corporation a 'haven of waste'. They intend to reopen as soon as possible, with only a fraction of the current 2600 head workforce. ERT and the unions do not agree and have occupied the building, continuing their service through satellite and internet. Terrestrial broadcasting towers, however, have been shut down.

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2013/06/11...he-plug-on-ert/

The bottom has not yet been reached.
 
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FionaK
view post Posted on 12/6/2013, 20:11




This is mentioned in a NY times article which is at best ambivalent: but one thing it mentions is that this will do nothing at all in the scheme of things to reduce the debt and deficit: it is described as "symbolic" designed to demonstrate the determination of the Greek government to obey their masters. The human cost is nowhere on the agenda.

There is also a curiously muted reaction to this attack on a free press, considering how much we hear about the threat to democracy which is so important when we propose regulation to stop the media telling outright lies about people (see Leveson).

I see the article continues the tradition of using "bloatedpublicservice" as one word, in the context of Greece. If anything demonstrates the need for a public service broadcaster that does: who now will separate those words and challenge that characterisation? I have asked before: how big should the public service be?
 
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FionaK
view post Posted on 24/6/2013, 02:05




https://thosebigwords.forumcommunity.net/?t...594&p=333910021

I posted this in Sep 2011 and it seems that someone else had the same idea of going to look at the "bloated" Greek public sector around the same time. He did a rather better job than I did but the conclusion is the same. Why is this not part of the discussion around Greece? In this country bloatedgreekpublicsector is apparently one word these days

www.philip-atticus.com/2011/09/publ...-in-greece.html

Edited by FionaK - 24/6/2013, 10:00
 
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FionaK
view post Posted on 23/11/2013, 12:43




http://www.neurope.eu/article/eurostat%E2%...%E2%80%99s-debt

I came across this. I do not have time to research the claims made here, but it is all very strange, if true. The question is, if these allegations are substantiated, cui bono?
 
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FionaK
view post Posted on 24/1/2014, 02:38




http://rwer.wordpress.com/2014/01/23/greec.../#comment-43429

This is an interesting article on the situation in Greece now
 
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FionaK
view post Posted on 16/7/2014, 12:03




I missed this when it came out: but better late than never.

http://sturdyblog.wordpress.com/2014/06/23...photos-confirm/
 
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view post Posted on 6/2/2015, 19:26
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1897

This is an interesting year that had slipped by me so far. The year in which the Greeks lost a war, gained Crete, lost financial control to an international commission, and increased their resolve to conquer all areas with Greek ethnics.

QUOTE
The Greek economy of the late nineteenth century had to face serious problems. The modernizing policy of Harilaos Trikoupis and chiefly the major works he had constructed


(railways, the canal at Isthmus of Corinth and so on) had built up a large external public debt that the state could not meet. The bankruptcy of 1893 was a fatal consequence. This terrible plight dramatically burdened the international financial state of the country. The defeat in the 1897 war led to the same result. Greece was compelled to pay war indemnities to Turkey, which put forward immediate payment as a condition for the withdrawal of its troops from Thessaly.

In order to pay this sum (4,000,000 Turkish liras or 95,000,000 golden francs of the time) the Greek state had to raise foreign loans, but world capital markets were not willing to supply new loans, if old credits were not settled. Given Greece's immediate economic needs, foreign creditors and the Great Powers were able to impose on Greece a mechanism of financial control, in order to ensure the payment of the capital and the interest on old and new loans.

From April 1898 the International Financial Control Commission (IFCC) was established in Athens; it was initially termed International Control Commission, but despite the change of name it was known as 'Control'. The commission consisted of six members, representatives of the Great Powers whereas revenues from the monopoly of salt, oil, matches, decks, cigarette paper, tobacco, paper stamps and the tariffs of the port of Piraeus passed under its control. These and other revenues, if the need arose, were disposed of to serve the country's loan obligations, while the Commission had the capacity to intervene in various sectors of the civil services in order to ensure the sufficient and, in time, payment of economic obligations to creditors.

It is worth mentioning that in that same period similar situtations emerged in other Balkan countries, the eastern Mediterranean, and even South America but with looser terms, as control has not been imposed after an international treaty and following the terms of a military defeat

Still, in the 1930s, 35% of state revenues were siphoned off to foreign banks. Meanwhile, debts as a percentage of gdp remained the same. The commission continued to have a significant impact on the Greek budget until 1941, when the German tanks rolled in. The office regained a marginal role after the war until 1978, when its office in Athens closed.
 
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FionaK
view post Posted on 8/2/2015, 20:29




I know nothing about this, Vninect

Are you saying that Greece had to pay 35% of its national income to service the interest on foreign debt from 1897 to 1941? If that is correct then it is little wonder that Greece was characterised as a poor country. But that has little to do with their alleged economic and political failings. It might go some way to explaining their alleged inability to collect tax, however.

Funny how differently Germany was treated in 1953, and after German reunification in the early 1990's led to breach of the EU rules in the early 2000's.

Do you have links to this episode and its historical development?
 
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view post Posted on 9/2/2015, 19:35
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Source of quote above: www.ime.gr/chronos/13/en/economy/institutions/index.html

Mention of the International Control Commission in this book at page 69: https://books.google.nl/books?id=dxnvqzfUu...mission&f=false

The decision to form the Commission followed the events of the Greco-Turkish War of 1897. More info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Turkish_War_(1897)

You asked specifically about the 35% number. It came from here: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/International...978#cite_note-9 [In German]

Edited by Vninect - 9/2/2015, 20:45
 
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FionaK
view post Posted on 5/6/2015, 00:48




https://sturdyblog.wordpress.com/2015/06/0...-to-all-of-you/

This is an interesting perspective on the situation with regard to Greece, now. The writer is Greek and spends much of his time in the UK, but I gather is in Greece now and has at least some feeling for the mood of the people in his own part of the country, presumably. And a better grasp of how things are seen there than the usual commentators, presumable
 
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